Curse

Batou of Nine · Feb 23, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

[rant]
Firstly, i willingly admit that i abuse animals in order to build up my fame for rank. Yes, i take part in iway. However, in my excuse, if a person starts unranked in HA (like the old tombs) then they have 10x harder time finding a PuG to fight in. I have been at this for 2 or 3 weeks now. i just now got rank 1 and but do not play hours and hours on end. So that is a descent rate.

It just strikes me as funny when people scream "noob iway" !! And the typical "you unranked noob!" Well, people have to start SOMEWHERE, and without a PvP dedicated guild, PuGs are ones only hope. And to get in most PuGs you have to be ranked, but to get rank you have to get fame, and to get fame you have to win lvls in HA, but to fight and win lvls in HA you have to get in groups, but most groups look for ranked. So on and so forth and so on. So you can see that new players to PvP can VERY easily get fed up with the whole concept. As it stands rank does.... NOTHING! It is a bragging right. However, the higher the rank, the better PuGs you can get into and better chances you have at winning halls and getting some goodies from the chest. That last part is my ONLY motivation to getting higher rank...LOL So whats my point? Umm, that should be obvious...
[/rant]

CRAP im sorry, heres the real thread if you made it this far. So i been in HA LOTS lately, and have noticed many many many Wards focused builds. Now i am assuming this is mainly to hold halls, if they can get there. I have noticed though, that this build has a very negligable dmg output compared to most other builds. However, they work, cause they simply wear down enemy teams slowly killing them off making them waste rez signets, while themselves hardly having to use any due to wards being spammed. Talk about a defensive build! The common one i see is at least 1 ward spammer using all wards, 3 monks, 2 gale warriors and then a mix of degen or spikers. Weird to me.

In a single run in a Pug iway build, we got all the way to halls, and out of the teams we beat, all but two was a ward build. The other two were also iway. So is the WARDS SPAMMING build now the FOTM? Iway is like perma fotm (until factions release anway), but this new build seems to have recently spread like wildfire. I was seeing the Japanese, Koreans, Europeans and Americans use this build.

Thoughts? Opinions? Flame me? Why? LOL?

Schorny · Feb 23, 2006, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batou of Nine

[rant]...[/rant]

just cheap execuses. sorry. but how do you think all the good player started to get their fame?
but if you want, play iway, it will be nerfed soon. (then you won't be able to play anything, better practice some time, huh?)

Quote:

So i been in HA LOTS lately, and have noticed many many many Wards focused builds.

sorry, but you have no idea.

wards are supplementary to support your defense and against iway wards work nicely. ward against foes kills warrior damage and is vital on relic runs. ward against melee is nice against warriors also.

ward against elements/harm is hardly ever used.

and too many teams have the power to power through wardcamping (too much AoE atm) so camping doesn't really work. But a ward every now and then is a good support if you can afford it.

I really do not see ward spamming as a new trend...

tafy69 · Feb 23, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

If you dont take a warder into HA you can nearly guarantee you wont get further than the relic run stage.

Nerdy · Feb 23, 2006, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

If you dont take a warder into HA you can nearly guarantee you wont get further than the relic run stage.

Not exactly true but I see your point.

Another key part of a warder's skill bar is the Earthquake, Aftershock combo.

This build is especially well equipped for altar maps. Add the obsidian flame to polish off low health targets and its not hard to see why it is so popular.

Autumn_Leaf · Feb 23, 2006, 01:59 PM // 13:59

obviously people do have to start out somewhere. and iway is the easiest way because so many people play it.

And yes it seems like wards to be the new fotm because i 've noticed that every balanced team has at least one warder be it ele or mes. they been here b4 , but there has been quite an upswing in it.

i still dont know why people hate iway so much. it takes virtually no thought would be the only reason people would hate it, but other than that its a build, no different.

Lord Dark Genie · Feb 23, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

I've seen warders for about 2 months in pretty much every "balanced" team (on euro times). Sometimes it's on a N/E but teams without wards are rare...

Earthquake/Aftershock is nice, because most teams don't seem to understand that staying next to an ele raising his arms for 3 seconds is a bad idea =D.

Ward against Foes is imho the best snare for relic runs, because you can't remove it, unlike hexes and conditions.
Obsidian Flame is really nice to help the warrior on a spike.

gna · Feb 23, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

new? the 2 surge mesmer team with a warder/earthquake/aftershock is the euro fotm for something like 2-3 month, because
- it counters iway quite well (with either a tra or a ss necro)
- it does well against ranger spike (e-drain the ranger)
- it does well against balanced teams, due to the 2 surge guys draining monks.
nearly 95 % of the teams formed in euro HA is either iway, ranger spike, or surge team. HA is soooooooo exciting!

Lykan · Feb 23, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by gna

new? the 2 surge mesmer team with a warder/earthquake/aftershock is the euro fotm for something like 2-3 month, because
- it counters iway quite well (with either a tra or a ss necro)
- it does well against ranger spike (e-drain the ranger)
- it does well against balanced teams, due to the 2 surge guys draining monks.
...

yep

<-- guilty....

Senator Tom · Feb 25, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

no, wards are not the new fotm.

Hippie Crack · Feb 25, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

People have been running earth ele's in balanced teams since the beginning, nothing new. It adds some good tactical advantages to the battlefield against nearly any team in HA.

scars of insanity · Feb 25, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

IWAY is great for anyone under r3. unless your in a mainly HoH guild your not gonna get many other options in pugs. Every once in a while you will see a ranger spike or balanced form up. (talkin bout american servers =) )

As for wards they are mainly to counter iway and to slow down people. Ward vs Foes + earthquake + aftershock then throw in a SS necro and you got some nice AoE dmg while the people are walking off slowly.

LifeInfusion · Feb 25, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Being a long time air healer and warden, I have to say that Wardens in PvE are about as common as a Mo/R that uses a bow.

There is a way to counter wards, it is called armor ignoring damage/degen.

M3lk0r · Feb 25, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by scars of insanity

IWAY is great for anyone under r3. unless your in a mainly HoH guild your not gonna get many other options in pugs. Every once in a while you will see a ranger spike or balanced form up. (talkin bout american servers =) )

Thankfuly, balanced is more common in eu servers. A lot of people are just plain bored of IWAY and some guilds are even kicking members who IWAY. I'm only R1 myself but mostly find a team (playing a Gale war, sometimes caller) with TS/Vent and upto r3 players. maybe not as successful as organised IWAY, but it gives you wider experience of the game mechanics.

EDIT: Bah, this weekend t'was was full of IWAY, maybe its not that out of fashion as I had thought.

Robster Lobster · Feb 26, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Being a long time air healer and warden, I have to say that Wardens in PvE are about as common as a Mo/R that uses a bow.

There is a way to counter wards, it is called armor ignoring damage/degen.

Yeah, my Ward against Foes always fails when I come up against people running Obsidian Flame...

Batou of Nine · Feb 28, 2006, 10:33 AM // 10:33

wow. great feedback!

Quote:

Originally Posted by gna

new? the 2 surge mesmer team with a warder/earthquake/aftershock is the euro fotm for something like 2-3 month, because
- it counters iway quite well (with either a tra or a ss necro)
- it does well against ranger spike (e-drain the ranger)
- it does well against balanced teams, due to the 2 surge guys draining monks.
nearly 95 % of the teams formed in euro HA is either iway, ranger spike, or surge team. HA is soooooooo exciting!

gna, hit the nail on the head. I really didnt analyze the builds specifically, but i realize that this was the exact build that i was seeing like every other map. I guess any build that can place supplementary wards around would be great protection, while a spikers do there job without too much trouble. With the right wards combos/chains, one could make it like perma Aegis. So why dont i see more Mesmer/Elementalists, so that they can lay wards faster and spike faster? I mean ya, they cant boost to 16, but... faster maybe better? IDK. just a thought... btw i was in HA the other day and the first map my iway pug went to, we faced a 5 mesmer. 1 war 2 monk team. all teh mesmers where arcane echeing esurge... along with a few other dom spikes... it was crazy kewl... worked good.. while warrior ran gale interference...

The reason i may not have noticed for those first few weeks i started doing HoH, is probly cause i was joining PuG iway groups that didnt often get past the first map! But after a while, i had been getting in great groups. That comment that iway will hardly ever get past the relic map, isnt true at all. It all depends on the groups coordination and timing. When i had posted this, i had just gone through 3 iway pugs each time we got past the relic map, and once we got to Halls.

Anywhoo, yall had some great constructive remarks! Cept that first guy seemed hostile. Called my whole "rant" just excuses? Then disclaims that remark with "How do you think all the good players got all their fame?" Umm, what exactly is he arguing? And that i will need to practice something else cause all i do is iway. Hmmm.... well duh!! It will eventually be nerfed, but currently this is the only non-ranked PuG group that consistently goes, hence my only real source for the possibility of getting some fame. I had STARTED in HoH trying to get in balanced PuGs, but alas, i was thwarted yet again by the "emote rank you noob!" groups...

Once iway does get nerfed, I will be oh SO happy. yup. enjoy.

audioaxes · Feb 28, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31

lol an iwayer complaining about wards???

with no ward against melee you WILL die a few times to a good iway group as aegis isnt a guarantee (as far as cast time, especially under NR, and duration)

i always thought eq/as is overrated, a good team that knows how to minimize the damage from it

thankfully not many realized there are a few more useful things (IMO) that the ele can be doing in between wards

Linsys · Mar 01, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

just cheap execuses. sorry. but how do you think all the good player started to get their fame?
but if you want, play iway, it will be nerfed soon. (then you won't be able to play anything, better practice some time, huh?)

His rant wasn't a cheap excuse... sorry... but there is no other way to get into a PUG group unless you run IWAY and don't have a PvP guild... period..

How do you think the most top players got their rank? Well I know some so I will tell you how they did it... they certinaly didn't run arround spaming rank 0 KD/Aftershock Warrior LFG...

They where in a PvP guild.. I know becuase I was in a guild with a lot of guys from a now rank 4 PvP guild... I'm now ONLY rank three while many of them are over r9+... unfortunatly the guild disbanded and I went to master PvE while they went to Master PvP...

Right now I love the guild I'm in we get on TS every day and talk and play PvE, lately I've wanted to PvP more and guess what unless I want to go with my buddies from my old guild the ONLY group I can get into with my rank 3 account (I also have anther account which is rank 0 and CANT GET INTO ANY GROUP) is IWAY (running Orders)...

This is one of the problems with PvP... I have 2 accounts one with my Necro (which turned into my storage account and is my rank 3 PvP account) and my PvE account which has NO rank... but has every skill in the game unlocked and every weapon mod, rune etc.... I want to get rank on this account and use this primarly however no one is gonna let a rank 1 into their group... I go to HA and spam Rank 1 Boon Prot LFG (or order or gale warrior or necro spike or bonder or etc..etc..) and no one replys for hours... I change to my rank 3 account and and spam Rank 3 orders LFG and get into a group in about 5 min... a group who is organized and on TS.. yesterday alone I farmed about 60 fame in about one 1/2 hours...

Unfortunatly there is no solution for people who don't have rank in PvP you can't just solo to get exp... there should be some PvP rank / PvE Exp equivelent or at the very least give rank to people in Random Areanas... they can be the trail ground to atleast Rank 3.... like presearing.

Lord Dark Genie · Mar 02, 2006, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linsys

His rant wasn't a cheap excuse... sorry... but there is no other way to get into a PUG group unless you run IWAY and don't have a PvP guild... period..

Even if you're rank 6 or better, without friends list + guild you're going to wait for hours sometimes to get a balanced pug.

You WILL waste a lot of time finding pugs if you don't build up a friends list and/or get in an active PvP guild

Arawn · Mar 02, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

It should be easy to kill off ward spamming teams with IWAY, simply take your trappers, and place traps everywhere in your opposing teams wards, that will force them to either die, or come out of the wards for your warriors to get them.

JR · Mar 02, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arawn

It should be easy to kill off ward spamming teams with IWAY, simply take your trappers, and place traps everywhere in your opposing teams wards, that will force them to either die, or come out of the wards for your warriors to get them.

That is largely the reason why IWAY evolved to use trappers in the first place; to push people out of ward camping. Also because it is very effective against OTHER IWAY.